Take a look at this press release from Gordon Copeland, one of the few remaining United Future MPs. He is trying to argue that the working for families package "can be accurately described as a “tax reduction and family income package" which is "true to the centrist position which characterises United Future".
He justifies this on the response to a parliamentary question where he asked for a breakdown of the types of families that will receive financial assistance through working for families. Of those, 164,000 families receive benefit income; 66,500 pay tax, but will receive more from working for families than they pay; and 125,900 pay tax and will receive less than they pay.
His conclusion is the first group are welfare beneficiaries, the third definately receive tax relief, and the second group also receive tax relief because he believes the term "welfare recipients" should be reserved for those whose principle support comes from the State.
Consequently, he claims that the number of benefit families does not increase under working for families.
Now I understand why this is the same guy who in the last Parliament advocated for taxpayer money to be given to someone in Masterton who claimed to have invented a perpetual motion machine. He has either got himself totally confused, or is effectively fiddling with the figures to support the conclusion that he wants.
Under his definition, some is not receiving welfare as long as it is not their principle source of income. So, someone earning $50,000 before tax ($38,630 after tax) is not receiving welfare as long as any income received back from the state is less than $38,630 a year after tax ($743 per week).
Obviously this is quite ludicrous. We have people here who are receiving more from working for families than they pay in tax - this is not tax relief. It is welfare. You can hardly argue that people are getting tax relief that has more than eliminated the total tax they pay.
So his argument that the 66,500 receive tax relief cannot be substantiated at all.
What about the rest? Well, I think it is hard to argue that working for families is tax relief when the amount you receive from it reduces significantly as you earn more money. It is another form of income redistribution, and so falls under the normal definition of welfare.
Gordon Copeland is either kidding himself, or has also become a poodle for the Labour party.Abby fine reader demo download
He justifies this on the response to a parliamentary question where he asked for a breakdown of the types of families that will receive financial assistance through working for families. Of those, 164,000 families receive benefit income; 66,500 pay tax, but will receive more from working for families than they pay; and 125,900 pay tax and will receive less than they pay.
His conclusion is the first group are welfare beneficiaries, the third definately receive tax relief, and the second group also receive tax relief because he believes the term "welfare recipients" should be reserved for those whose principle support comes from the State.
Consequently, he claims that the number of benefit families does not increase under working for families.
Now I understand why this is the same guy who in the last Parliament advocated for taxpayer money to be given to someone in Masterton who claimed to have invented a perpetual motion machine. He has either got himself totally confused, or is effectively fiddling with the figures to support the conclusion that he wants.
Under his definition, some is not receiving welfare as long as it is not their principle source of income. So, someone earning $50,000 before tax ($38,630 after tax) is not receiving welfare as long as any income received back from the state is less than $38,630 a year after tax ($743 per week).
Obviously this is quite ludicrous. We have people here who are receiving more from working for families than they pay in tax - this is not tax relief. It is welfare. You can hardly argue that people are getting tax relief that has more than eliminated the total tax they pay.
So his argument that the 66,500 receive tax relief cannot be substantiated at all.
What about the rest? Well, I think it is hard to argue that working for families is tax relief when the amount you receive from it reduces significantly as you earn more money. It is another form of income redistribution, and so falls under the normal definition of welfare.
Gordon Copeland is either kidding himself, or has also become a poodle for the Labour party.Abby fine reader demo download
Comments
Not sure I agree with you - welfare is paid by Work and Imcome, WFF payments for those whose main income is from work is paid through IRD.It is even difficult to argue that once the tax relief runs out the overflow could be welfare - but if that were so, WINZ should be paying that proportion not IRD.If the person got a significant pay rise, or new job that would mean their WFF payments would drop, meaning that they will be back paying tax - and if they were assessed as getting too much family support at the end of the financial year, they will have to pay it back. If were classed as welfare, they wouldn't.So, Copeland is corect.Why do you seem to think that IRD is a welfare agency? If it was, more WFF payments would be made by WINZAnd on another matter - did you know that United Future is the only party in the world to have two thirds of its caucus as the spokespeople for revenue- Dunne is the Miniser for Revenue and Copeland the UFNZ spokespersonPS good blog, its my first visit...Abby fine reader demo download
By your comments, it sounds like you are saying that money from WINZ is by definition welfare, and money from IRD is by definition tax relief.I'm afraid I don't agree with that. It would definately be possible to rework how the unemployment benefit is paid, so that payments come from IRD instead of WINZ - but that would not make them tax relief!Anyway, I had noticed that UF had two spokespeople for revenue. It's strange given that they only have a few MPs in the first place and so they are probably already overloaded.Abby fine reader demo download