I first wrote this article on Predestination around December 2000. At the time I was attempting to refute pure Arminianism. Since then, my views have softened slightly towards more a middle foreknowledge view, mainly because of my views of God's relationship with time. I will explore this further in a future article.
One of the most challenging issues, intellectually, theologically, and morally, that we must face, is the conflict between the views of predestination and free choice on the Sovereignty of God. Predestination is often rejected out of hand, as it seems too difficult to reconcile the perfect love of God, with a God who has chosen in advance who will be saved. The purpose of this paper is to explain as what the doctrine of predestination is, how it should be understood, and most importantly, how it should be applied to our lives. In the interests of brevity, not all points of view and objections are discussed, and those interested should consult the references listed at the end, in addition to other materials.
Predestination is actually part of a broader issue: the Providence of God, which may be thought of as God being Sovereign and in control of all events in the universe. Election, or predestination, may be defined as an act of God before creation in which he chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any foreseen merit in them, but only because of his sovereign good pleasure. This means simply that we are saved only because God chose us to be saved.
This is an interesting idea, but does it match up with Scripture? The first passage to consider is Acts 13:48. When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. What is most interesting about this verse is that Luke mentions election just in passing, as if it were the common occurrence. Every time the gospel was preached the number saved were the number that had been ordained to eternal life.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Rom 8:28-30)
Paul is here writing about the order of the application of salvation some of the events that happen in a persons life as they come to Christ and live the life of a believer. The first stage mentioned is predestination (or election), where God chooses them in advance. He then calls them (presenting them with the gospel message), justifies them (justification is an act where God removes our sin and guilt and credits us with the righteousness of Christ), and glorifies them. Glorification is the receiving of a resurrection body, an event in the future. Here Paul speaks of it as if it where a past event. Since we have been predestination or chosen, this future event is as sure as if it had already happened. God has chosen us and nothing will make him change his mind, and nothing can stop him from carrying out his purposes, so it is therefore certain that we will be glorified.
In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Eph 1:4-6)
Paul quite clearly writes here about us being predestined to be adopted as sons (and daughters). Adoption into Gods family is something experience by each and every believer, and only by believers. All who are adopted into Gods family were chosen to be a part of it.
Also it [the beast] was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. It was given authority over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slaughtered. (Rev 13:7,8 NRSV)
This book of life contains the names of every believer, and our names were written in this book before creation. God chose us to be saved before we were born.
Jesus also says: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44). It is impossible for someone to come to Jesus, unless God himself draws them, and creates the change in their heart that is necessary to find Jesus.
Pslam 139 also provides clear support for predestination where King David writes the following:
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be. (Ps 139:13-16)
Predestination appears to be clearly taught in the Bible, and I think it is helpful to look at it logically for a moment. Clearly everyone who goes to heaven must have chosen to follow God no one will go to heaven if they rejected God. At the same time, God chooses who enters heaven. We cannot sneak in without him noticing, so God must have chosen us to enter heaven. So the question is, did God choose us because we chose him, or do we choose God because he has chosen us? These cannot be independent events, as everyone God selects to enter heaven will be in heaven, and everyone who chooses God will enter heaven. Either both occur, or neither occur. Is Gods choice of who is saved more or less important than our own choice. I think it has to be Gods choice that is more important, particularly in the light of the Scriptures quoted above.
So, how should the doctrine of predestination be understood? The most important point to emphasise as we try to understand predestination is that it is an act of love. Eph 1:4 clearly says that we were predestined in love. It is not a random choice by God, but an act of ultimate love. If we look at it from another point of view it might clarify matters a little. We are all sinners and fall short of Gods righteous requirements, and so are guilty before him. Now, since God is a perfectly just God, his justice requires that the penalty for sin be paid. If he let sinners off the hook as it were, then he could not be a just God, and since all of us have sinned, we all justly deserve the punishment for sin. What if God chose to save one sinner and paid the price for them? He is still perfectly just since the penalty for sin has been paid, but that would show amazing love, since God did not save the demons when they sinned (2 Pet 2:4), but did save one person. It is not unjust it is an act of love. What if God chose to save a hundred people, or a thousand? How much greater his love must be. What if God chose to save billions of people who do not deserve it the depths of his love must be beyond measure!
The fact that God has chosen some to be saved does not mean that He has chosen the rest to be lost. The world is already lost and dead in sins. If left to ourselves, all of us would be condemned eternally. The question is, does God have a right to stoop down, take a handful of already doomed clay, and fashion a vessel of beauty out of it? Of course he does. C. R. Erdman put it right in perspective when he said, Gods sovereignty is never exercised in condemning men who ought to be saved, but in rather it has resulted in the salvation of men who ought to be lost.
How did God come to the decision of who to save?. In Romans 9 Paul is saying how God chose Jacob but rejected Esau before they were born.
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad in order that Gods purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls she [Rebekah] was told, The older will serve the younger. Just as it is written: Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. (Rom 9:11-13)
It appears that the choice is arbitrary and unfair, but it must be remembered that God created both Esau and Jacob. God would have always known that if he created someone like Jacob that he would follow him, whereas if he created someone like Esau, he knew that Esau would reject him. God is omniscient and so does not just create us and then have to wait and see what happens. He knows in advance what the result of doing something would be. He knew that if he created Esau, Esau would reject him, and if he created Jacob, Jacob would accept him. He then chose to create both of them. Therefore, it can be said that God caused Jacob to choose God, and that God caused Esau to reject God, since he knew what would happen and still chose to creation them. Gods sovereign will causes us to make a free choice to follow him.
One question does arise however: if God knows that certain people would reject him if they were created, why did he still create them? Paul tackles this question in Romans 9.
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but on Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will? But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, Why did you make me like this? Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for his glory even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (Rom 9:14-24)
The first point that Paul makes in answering this question is that it has nothing to do with us in the first place, as it is Gods prerogative as to when he shows his mercy and to whom. God is not choosing to prevent some people coming to him they choose to reject him. He chooses to display his mercy to some who would otherwise reject him. Secondly, he is the Creator, and that gives him the right to deal with his creation as he chooses simply because he knows best. The question would it have been better not to create those who will never accept God? can only ever be fully answered by God since he is the only one with all the knowledge required to answer that question fully. Since God is good, omniscient, and omnipotent, we know that his decision is always the best decision. The final point that Paul makes is that the fact that some people are not saved actually shows the glory of God more clearly. This point highlights the fundamental difference between the predestination and free choice points of view. The Bible clearly says that God desires everyone to be saved (1 Ti 2:4), but since not everyone is saved, and God is Sovereign, he must desire something more than everyone being saved, otherwise everyone would be. From a free choice perspective, God desires absolute free choice more than universal salvation. From the perspective of predestination, God desires that his glory be shown more than he desires everyone to be saved, and this is shown much more clearly in Scripture, especially in Romans 9. Not everyone is saved because it shows Gods glory more clearly to us, and it also shows us his mercy more clearly, enabling us to love him more.
However, we must not say that we do not have free choice or that our decisions are insignificant. The Bible still affirms clearly that are our choices are important, and make a difference. We are not robots, but God created us so that our actions would make a difference in this world, and our choices are real choices. They are real choices simply because God says they are. That our choices are actually meaningful is demonstrated throughout Scripture: As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from the ways and live. (Ez 33:11), Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Mt 11:28), and The Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. (Rev 22:17). When answering those Jews that did not believe, Jesus did not say, You cannot be saved because you were not chosen, but he said you refuse to come to me to have life (Jn 5:40). God holds people responsible to accept Jesus by an act of the will. Predestination does not absolve us of the responsibility or the consequences of making decisions. Our free decisions drive us away from God, but in his love, God chose to prevent all of us from facing the consequences of those decisions.
The final point to make when considering understanding predestination is that it cannot be done. Our God is an extremely complex God (he must be to have created such a complex and detailed universe), and our minds are very limited in comparison. We can never hope to fully understand God, but can only understand in part. We must continue to trust in God, in his love, and his justice, and though predestination may be difficult to accept since we cannot fully understand it, it was created by a God of love. We know that whatever decisions that God makes, they are decisions made by a God who is love, who is holy, and who is just. He predestined us in love!
So why make a big deal of predestination? Because it should affect how we live, and I would like to suggest a few ways as to how it should affect our daily lives.
Firstly, God is in control of everything. Since God has predestined what will happen, we should not be afraid of the future, but trust in God. The world is not a place where we must constantly struggle because has not sorted things out yet, but we can trust that God is Sovereign, and has all things under control. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him (Rom 8:28a). We can be confident that even when circumstances look really bad, God is in control and is working for our ultimate and eternal good.
Since God is in control of everything, we should thank him for all good things that happen to us. If the weather is good one day, we should thank him. If we have a good day at work or school, we should thank him. We should thank him for our families, our friends, for everything.
There is a saying, There are no coincidences in God its called divine appointment. Nothing happens because of coincidence or luck, because God is in control. We should adopt a more personal understanding of the universe and the events that happen in it. Nothing happens because of luck or an impersonal fate, but because of a personal God. A deepened appreciation of Gods providence should make us trust in God more fully and be more prepared to obey him.
Finally, the real question of a believer is not, does the sovereign God have the right to choose people to be saved? Rather, it is, why did he choose me? Why did God choose me to demonstrate his mercy and grace to? Why did the Creator of the universe choose me? This should make a person a worshipper for all eternity.
References
One of the most challenging issues, intellectually, theologically, and morally, that we must face, is the conflict between the views of predestination and free choice on the Sovereignty of God. Predestination is often rejected out of hand, as it seems too difficult to reconcile the perfect love of God, with a God who has chosen in advance who will be saved. The purpose of this paper is to explain as what the doctrine of predestination is, how it should be understood, and most importantly, how it should be applied to our lives. In the interests of brevity, not all points of view and objections are discussed, and those interested should consult the references listed at the end, in addition to other materials.
Predestination is actually part of a broader issue: the Providence of God, which may be thought of as God being Sovereign and in control of all events in the universe. Election, or predestination, may be defined as an act of God before creation in which he chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any foreseen merit in them, but only because of his sovereign good pleasure. This means simply that we are saved only because God chose us to be saved.
This is an interesting idea, but does it match up with Scripture? The first passage to consider is Acts 13:48. When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. What is most interesting about this verse is that Luke mentions election just in passing, as if it were the common occurrence. Every time the gospel was preached the number saved were the number that had been ordained to eternal life.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Rom 8:28-30)
Paul is here writing about the order of the application of salvation some of the events that happen in a persons life as they come to Christ and live the life of a believer. The first stage mentioned is predestination (or election), where God chooses them in advance. He then calls them (presenting them with the gospel message), justifies them (justification is an act where God removes our sin and guilt and credits us with the righteousness of Christ), and glorifies them. Glorification is the receiving of a resurrection body, an event in the future. Here Paul speaks of it as if it where a past event. Since we have been predestination or chosen, this future event is as sure as if it had already happened. God has chosen us and nothing will make him change his mind, and nothing can stop him from carrying out his purposes, so it is therefore certain that we will be glorified.
In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Eph 1:4-6)
Paul quite clearly writes here about us being predestined to be adopted as sons (and daughters). Adoption into Gods family is something experience by each and every believer, and only by believers. All who are adopted into Gods family were chosen to be a part of it.
Also it [the beast] was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. It was given authority over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slaughtered. (Rev 13:7,8 NRSV)
This book of life contains the names of every believer, and our names were written in this book before creation. God chose us to be saved before we were born.
Jesus also says: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn 6:44). It is impossible for someone to come to Jesus, unless God himself draws them, and creates the change in their heart that is necessary to find Jesus.
Pslam 139 also provides clear support for predestination where King David writes the following:
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be. (Ps 139:13-16)
Predestination appears to be clearly taught in the Bible, and I think it is helpful to look at it logically for a moment. Clearly everyone who goes to heaven must have chosen to follow God no one will go to heaven if they rejected God. At the same time, God chooses who enters heaven. We cannot sneak in without him noticing, so God must have chosen us to enter heaven. So the question is, did God choose us because we chose him, or do we choose God because he has chosen us? These cannot be independent events, as everyone God selects to enter heaven will be in heaven, and everyone who chooses God will enter heaven. Either both occur, or neither occur. Is Gods choice of who is saved more or less important than our own choice. I think it has to be Gods choice that is more important, particularly in the light of the Scriptures quoted above.
So, how should the doctrine of predestination be understood? The most important point to emphasise as we try to understand predestination is that it is an act of love. Eph 1:4 clearly says that we were predestined in love. It is not a random choice by God, but an act of ultimate love. If we look at it from another point of view it might clarify matters a little. We are all sinners and fall short of Gods righteous requirements, and so are guilty before him. Now, since God is a perfectly just God, his justice requires that the penalty for sin be paid. If he let sinners off the hook as it were, then he could not be a just God, and since all of us have sinned, we all justly deserve the punishment for sin. What if God chose to save one sinner and paid the price for them? He is still perfectly just since the penalty for sin has been paid, but that would show amazing love, since God did not save the demons when they sinned (2 Pet 2:4), but did save one person. It is not unjust it is an act of love. What if God chose to save a hundred people, or a thousand? How much greater his love must be. What if God chose to save billions of people who do not deserve it the depths of his love must be beyond measure!
The fact that God has chosen some to be saved does not mean that He has chosen the rest to be lost. The world is already lost and dead in sins. If left to ourselves, all of us would be condemned eternally. The question is, does God have a right to stoop down, take a handful of already doomed clay, and fashion a vessel of beauty out of it? Of course he does. C. R. Erdman put it right in perspective when he said, Gods sovereignty is never exercised in condemning men who ought to be saved, but in rather it has resulted in the salvation of men who ought to be lost.
How did God come to the decision of who to save?. In Romans 9 Paul is saying how God chose Jacob but rejected Esau before they were born.
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad in order that Gods purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls she [Rebekah] was told, The older will serve the younger. Just as it is written: Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. (Rom 9:11-13)
It appears that the choice is arbitrary and unfair, but it must be remembered that God created both Esau and Jacob. God would have always known that if he created someone like Jacob that he would follow him, whereas if he created someone like Esau, he knew that Esau would reject him. God is omniscient and so does not just create us and then have to wait and see what happens. He knows in advance what the result of doing something would be. He knew that if he created Esau, Esau would reject him, and if he created Jacob, Jacob would accept him. He then chose to create both of them. Therefore, it can be said that God caused Jacob to choose God, and that God caused Esau to reject God, since he knew what would happen and still chose to creation them. Gods sovereign will causes us to make a free choice to follow him.
One question does arise however: if God knows that certain people would reject him if they were created, why did he still create them? Paul tackles this question in Romans 9.
What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on mans desire or effort, but on Gods mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me: Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will? But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, Why did you make me like this? Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for his glory even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (Rom 9:14-24)
The first point that Paul makes in answering this question is that it has nothing to do with us in the first place, as it is Gods prerogative as to when he shows his mercy and to whom. God is not choosing to prevent some people coming to him they choose to reject him. He chooses to display his mercy to some who would otherwise reject him. Secondly, he is the Creator, and that gives him the right to deal with his creation as he chooses simply because he knows best. The question would it have been better not to create those who will never accept God? can only ever be fully answered by God since he is the only one with all the knowledge required to answer that question fully. Since God is good, omniscient, and omnipotent, we know that his decision is always the best decision. The final point that Paul makes is that the fact that some people are not saved actually shows the glory of God more clearly. This point highlights the fundamental difference between the predestination and free choice points of view. The Bible clearly says that God desires everyone to be saved (1 Ti 2:4), but since not everyone is saved, and God is Sovereign, he must desire something more than everyone being saved, otherwise everyone would be. From a free choice perspective, God desires absolute free choice more than universal salvation. From the perspective of predestination, God desires that his glory be shown more than he desires everyone to be saved, and this is shown much more clearly in Scripture, especially in Romans 9. Not everyone is saved because it shows Gods glory more clearly to us, and it also shows us his mercy more clearly, enabling us to love him more.
However, we must not say that we do not have free choice or that our decisions are insignificant. The Bible still affirms clearly that are our choices are important, and make a difference. We are not robots, but God created us so that our actions would make a difference in this world, and our choices are real choices. They are real choices simply because God says they are. That our choices are actually meaningful is demonstrated throughout Scripture: As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from the ways and live. (Ez 33:11), Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Mt 11:28), and The Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. (Rev 22:17). When answering those Jews that did not believe, Jesus did not say, You cannot be saved because you were not chosen, but he said you refuse to come to me to have life (Jn 5:40). God holds people responsible to accept Jesus by an act of the will. Predestination does not absolve us of the responsibility or the consequences of making decisions. Our free decisions drive us away from God, but in his love, God chose to prevent all of us from facing the consequences of those decisions.
The final point to make when considering understanding predestination is that it cannot be done. Our God is an extremely complex God (he must be to have created such a complex and detailed universe), and our minds are very limited in comparison. We can never hope to fully understand God, but can only understand in part. We must continue to trust in God, in his love, and his justice, and though predestination may be difficult to accept since we cannot fully understand it, it was created by a God of love. We know that whatever decisions that God makes, they are decisions made by a God who is love, who is holy, and who is just. He predestined us in love!
So why make a big deal of predestination? Because it should affect how we live, and I would like to suggest a few ways as to how it should affect our daily lives.
Firstly, God is in control of everything. Since God has predestined what will happen, we should not be afraid of the future, but trust in God. The world is not a place where we must constantly struggle because has not sorted things out yet, but we can trust that God is Sovereign, and has all things under control. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him (Rom 8:28a). We can be confident that even when circumstances look really bad, God is in control and is working for our ultimate and eternal good.
Since God is in control of everything, we should thank him for all good things that happen to us. If the weather is good one day, we should thank him. If we have a good day at work or school, we should thank him. We should thank him for our families, our friends, for everything.
There is a saying, There are no coincidences in God its called divine appointment. Nothing happens because of coincidence or luck, because God is in control. We should adopt a more personal understanding of the universe and the events that happen in it. Nothing happens because of luck or an impersonal fate, but because of a personal God. A deepened appreciation of Gods providence should make us trust in God more fully and be more prepared to obey him.
Finally, the real question of a believer is not, does the sovereign God have the right to choose people to be saved? Rather, it is, why did he choose me? Why did God choose me to demonstrate his mercy and grace to? Why did the Creator of the universe choose me? This should make a person a worshipper for all eternity.
References
- Barker, Kenneth L & Kohlenberger III, John R.; Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary: Volume 2: New Testament; Zondervan Publishing House; 1994; pp 565-572, 752-754.
- Gruden, Wayne; Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine; Inter-Varsity Press and Zondervan Publishing House; 1994; pp 315-354, 669-691, 722-745.
- Lucado, Max; Inspirational Bible Study Series: Book of Romans; Word Publishing; 1996.
- Schreiner, Thomas R.; Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament: Romans; Baker Books; 1998; pp 448-530.
- Stott, John R.W.; The Bible Speaks Today: The Message of Ephesians; Inter-Varsity Press; 1999; pp 31-50.
Comments
Would you mind perusing this thought. Feel free to blast away. I am no theologian, or seminarian (if such a thing exists) These are mere thoughts.
I woke up at half past dark last night and couldn't go back to sleep until I had thought about this for a good bit. Thank you, Lord :)
Presuppositions:legion 88 megaupload
God is outside of time. Only one outside of time could create time.
God's nature is of presence and activity in time. Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Omnipitent.
Theory:
Pre-destiny is a term for those of us who cannot see the whole picture based on perspective.
Example:
By our perspective we see this
. legion 88 megaupload
which appears to be a dot. That is because we are standing in front of it or in our case “in” its path.legion 88 megaupload
God sees this:
_____________________legion 88 megaupload
This is because He is outside of our linear perspective. legion 88 megaupload
Another example: Point the business end of an unsharpened pencil towards your eye, all you see is the is a dot of lead with some surrounding wood, but you know that if you turned it sideways and could see inside that there is an entire thread of lead going through that pencil.legion 88 megaupload
Since God is outside of time, He sees our linear timeline as a whole. That is, if He were watching Pre-creation to Post-eternity(if that were possible), he would see it as a one continuous thread. Sort of like a film reel with each micro second its own frame. We are forced to watch the movie through the projection and only see what is being played at each micro second.
Now by God's nature, not only does he see each frame, He is also present and active in each one.
So by this statement, by God’s position and nature, He is at this time present and active in our past, present, and future. Right NOW He is at Creation, right NOW he is at the Fall and the Flood. Right NOW He is at the Pit where the enemy is being sent. This matches scripture that "He is the same Past Present and Future." legion 88 megaupload
Being able to view the entirety of our linear time as a whole, He sees things that to us have already occurred, are occurring, and will occur in the future. Not only does He have this insight, but He is active and present in each instance. legion 88 megaupload
This brings me to prophecy. Some make the claim, looking back at history, that because prophecy foretold of Judas’ betrayal that he was ‘predestined’ (unable to change his fate) to betray Jesus. That God created Judas to be a betrayer. Looking forward to the Revelation of John, that in the future, because of prophecy, that someone is predestined to become the anti-christ. Created to fail. This goes against the Scripture and the nature of our redeemer God.legion 88 megaupload
Put in perspective of God’s view of our timeline, prophecy is nothing more than the Lord seeing what a person has chosen (through free will) and telling someone in the linear past that this has occurred. God has already seen, or even IS seeing, the end of the enemy’s time here. He told John what has occurred already from His perspective.legion 88 megaupload
Conclusion: Prophecy is nothing more than a report of something which has already occurred in God’s perspective on our timeline. Thus, He did not create anyone for failure.legion 88 megaupload
legion 88 megaupload
This fits in with the “elect” as well, if you are inclined to believe that some are and some are not. By God’s perspective He sees all who have trusted in the redemption given through His Son’s sacrifice and who has not. He is also active and present in each of these lives as well. This in no way negates free will. He says in His Word that He calls to all. If God, in His perspective, sees that this one does not choose life through Christ and then chose to force that person to choose Him, even to save his soul, THAT would negate free will. He did not make people to go to Hell, yet in His position, He sees each one that is, has, and will and again, in His Word, tells us of those.
On a side note: Even if you believed that there were elect that should free you up of trying to “manipulate” someone into Christ. All you have to do is tell them the Gospel, the good news and, if they are ‘elect’, they will come to Christ. Christ Himself still told us to go and make disciples.legion 88 megaupload
Try and tie this one on, by the same standard. In God’s perspective and position outside of our linear time, all who have chosen His gift are right NOW with Him in eternity. Let me re-state that. You and I, who have chosen Jesus as Savior, are right now in God’s position with Him in eternity worshipping. It is already done. That should free you up a little.legion 88 megaupload
All of this may already have been written down somewhere and my subconscious has dredged it up.
legion 88 megaupload
In your bib: it should be Wayne Grudem, not Gruden. :) legion 88 megaupload
i am currently attending an intro to philosophy class at the university of central oklahoma, and we are discussing theism and defining God... i am a firm believer but this topic of predestination/free will is really bugging me and your article didnt give me much comfort. i understand how by choosing us God shows His love, but what about the others? why would he create them to go to hell just to make us love him more? it doesnt set right with me... i would really like some firm answers, not just the "our minds cannot comprehend" line please :) im not trying to argue i just want some biblical advice... oh and how is it possible to have free will and be predestined?? contradiction... right? :Slegion 88 megaupload
Sarena said:
i understand how by choosing us God shows His love, but what about the others? why would he create them to go to hell...legion 88 megaupload
Let me start with a few passages to get started:legion 88 megaupload
NLT Ex 33;19 For I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose. legion 88 megaupload
NLT Luke 1; 50 He shows mercy from generation to generation to all who fear him. legion 88 megaupload
Rom 11;30 Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead. 31 Now they are the rebels, and God's mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share in God's mercy. 32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. legion 88 megaupload
Bottom line; Don't believe everything you hear from today's fallen priesthood! Trust in what the Word and the Holy Spirit say. legion 88 megaupload
The truth is hard for most church goers to hear. Nevertheless, they need to hear!
God Bless
Glenn
TheBigPicMin legion 88 megaupload
I am in the same boat with Sarena. I grew up Wesleyan and still have the same beliefs, so it is hard to wrap my mind around predestination. I know that God is just in all things, and I am glad that I am saved, but it is really unsettling reading that God just chooses some and others (though by their own choice) are damned. I just can't seem to understand. I know that humans cannot have total understanding of God, but I have grown up with the concept that God loves everyone, Jesus died for ALL, and that God wants all to be saved and come to Him. There are passages in the Bible that back this up, but predestination and God's elect seems to play a big part. Can anyone else offer their advice? God has always been my best friend, my shelter.. and this is so disheartening! legion 88 megaupload